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THE MYSTERY BOX

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Impressing Girls (I need help!) You are now viewing the Impressing Girls (I need help!) thread.
  1. #41 May 8th, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
    Don't try to use magic as a substitute for personality.
    Couldn't have said it better.

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    Lyle Borders
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  2. #42 May 8th, 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post

    Don't try to use magic as a substitute for personality.
    Especially in a crossword puzzle. Not only are the two words of different length, but they have completely different meanings.

    And nice call out on my other post. Touche.

    We all have bad days and hasty posts.

    東京マジック!Good times.
  3. #43 May 8th, 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steerpike View Post
    Impressing someone with skill is not the same thing as impressing them with personality. Magic is a great icebreaker, but you have to be able to hold a conversation without the magic or it's pointless. If you go in thinking that all you have to do is a card trick and your made, you're going to screw it up because soon the trick is over and you have no idea what to do next.

    Don't try to use magic as a substitute for personality.
    I think that goes without saying...

    However, his original question only asked about which effects he should do for this girl, nothing else. I was just saying that whatever he uses to impress people on a daily basis should work just fine. Just because she's a girl and he likes her doesn't mean suddenly it's more difficult to impress her with magic.

    This is a magic forum, after all. Not a dating advice forum. If this was a dating advice forum, I'd have told him not to use magic at all (at first).

  4. #44 May 8th, 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by tokyoUW View Post
    Especially in a crossword puzzle. Not only are the two words of different length, but they have completely different meanings.
    Oh man I love you so much. Very funny. +1

  5. #45 May 8th, 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbyhasbun View Post
    Just because she's a girl and he likes her doesn't mean suddenly it's more difficult to impress her with magic.
    I don't know about that. It always seems more difficult to me when someone I actually care about is on the receiving end of the performance.

    -Christopher
  6. #46 May 8th, 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by eostresh View Post
    That right there is a caveat that completely explains how you missed my original point. I don't mean that to be offensive...just educational. Within a community like you describe having collections of "things" is a conspicuous display of resources. I'm sure he doesn't still "play" with his toys. So the fact that he has them is an indicator that he has the resources to spend on completely unnecessary "fluff"....plumage if you will.
    Actually, he does play with the toys that aren't particularly valuable. I understand the concept of plumage and that it can vary. However, most people aren't going to understand that you mean, "Show that you have resources." What they are seeing is, "Have muscles and money." You're not communicating the deeper ideas with the quippy version. Therefore, I maintain that "Have money and muscles" is bad advice.

    So while I toss out a lot of flippant reductionist jokes about it the truth remains the same. Attract with plumage, (muscles, toys, fancy hair, fancy clothes, whatever fits your subculture) and display high status which means a high status job within your subculture. "No baby...I don't work at the comic book store.....I OWN the comic book store. Gimmie some sugar baby!"
    I don't disagree, but I think you're still giving bad advice. People who are peacocking specifically to get attention (eg: hook people) are usually quite obvious and therefore avoided. Personality is more important and often is a hook in itself. In my previous example, the guy in question didn't flaunt his hobbies beyond the norm of the environment he was in (As in, he'd dress up for renn faires, but not extravagantly). He hooked people by talking to them and being charming. They found out later that he was UberGeek, Lord of the Nerds. I knew him for two years before I found out he had a closet packed full of expensive Victorian/Edwardian clothing.

    So, I maintain, it's better advice to tell people to develop their social skills rather than worrying about obvious displays of value. Anyone who has to tell you that they are valuable probably isn't.

    And people can feel free to sneer at me if they like. When you study Sociobiology you get used to it. In the late 90s liberals seemed to think I was a sexist, bigoted, conservative racist for having the audacity to think that we were not all born with a "blank slate." Now conservatives think I am a hippy, stuck up, intelligentsia liberal because I don't believe the world was created 6,000 years ago. So pretty much guys who study the field I have studied get used to being hated by all sides. Oh well....doesn't change the three fundamental rules of life...

    Eat....Reproduce.....Don't get EATEN!
    Really? The persecuted angle?

    -Christopher
  7. #47 May 9th, 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristopherT View Post
    I don't know about that. It always seems more difficult to me when someone I actually care about is on the receiving end of the performance.
    It may seem more difficult, but my point was that just because she makes you nervous, doesn't mean magic is less effective on her than the people you otherwise perform for.

  8. #48 May 11th, 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristopherT View Post
    I don't know about that. It always seems more difficult to me when someone I actually care about is on the receiving end of the performance.
    This is why I never perform "at" them . Instead, perform the room. There's something incredibly attractive, I hear, about people who just captivate a whole bar. As soon as you perform towards the person you want to impress you'll take their attention away from you and the bar and towards your cards, rings, clown noses, or whatnot. That eliminates 90% of your charm in trade for a trick.

    The women I am dating never told me "the second you showed me this great hindu shuffle I was in love". Instead I get the "when I watched you completely bamboozle those six businessmen and then make this girl give you her cell phone number I knew you were someone I wanted to get to know".

  9. #49 May 11th, 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristopherT View Post
    I understand the concept of plumage and that it can vary. However, most people aren't going to understand that you mean, "Show that you have resources." What they are seeing is, "Have muscles and money." You're not communicating the deeper ideas with the quippy version. Therefore, I maintain that "Have money and muscles" is bad advice.
    Well...It seems as if the quippy, dumbed down, laymen's explanation of this stuff is pretty difficult to grasp. So you are asking me to get more technical? .... so if we were talking not about evolutionary psychology...say we were talking physics. I'm having trouble explaining, in layman's terms, some quantum theory. You would then ask that I not explain those concepts to a group of non-physicists in layman's terms but, instead, recite the mathematical equations?
    I don't disagree, but I think you're still giving bad advice...........

    .............So, I maintain, it's better advice to tell people to develop their social skills rather than worrying about obvious displays of value. Anyone who has to tell you that they are valuable probably isn't.
    Your flat wrong. If you know anything about the evolution of personality you know it is pretty well established early on in life. That means that it is primarily the product of the brain chemistry that you inherit from your folks and the environment you grow up in during early childhood development. That doesn't mean that it cannot change, in fact it will as your brain chemistry changes throughout life, but at any stage along the way it is harder to change than most self help books would like you to think. You are spouting the "party line" of a self help industry that makes millions of dollars because they want to convince people that they can change themselves. The good news is that you can change yourself. But, it is probably better done under the qualified guidance of a trained psychologist, not the recent self help trend. Even with that, you will improve your social skills quicker by exercising and finding a good job. The added confidence you will get by feeling physically healthy and financially secure will do more than any self help mumbo jumbo.
    Really? The persecuted angle?
    Far from it...Two things you need to understand. First, I'm on the other side of this! Therefore, it is hard for me to take this very seriously. It's funny....and cute! I remember when I obsessed about how to ask out girls. I remember the mistakes I made. I know that you guys will make some of the mistakes I made, avoid some of the mistakes I made, and fall into some mistakes I never made. And when you get on the other end of all that you will find topics like this a bit humorous as well.

    Secondly, just because I'm trying to be light hearted and "quippy" doesn't i'm not trying to give you guys a down and dirty education on an interesting topic. Also, and to be blunt, some of you guys are taking this way to seriously. So the comment was not mean as a "Poor persecuted me" comment at all. Instead it was meant to say exactly what it said, you really can tease me on this! I don't take this that serious.

    The opening advice I gave this kid is frankly the best advice you could give him. Go to the gym(take care of yourself physically. A healthy body is a healthy mind. 99% of people who exercise regularly are NOT muscle bound dimwitted body builders!) and get a good job (financial security goes a long way towards building your own self esteem and self worth!) If you do those two things then the chances are that the rest will fall into place. Even with that there is no guarantee that you won't get a broken heart or two along the way but, at least you are 1/2 the way towards leading a happy, productive life.

    "meLt": The Evolution of the Vanishing Deck!
    "The best mentalists are at Theory 11" - No One Ever
  10. #50 May 11th, 2012

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    ...Continued

    So Christopher, if you want me not to be tounge and cheek, if you want me to get more technical and stop trying to simplify this for an audience who doesn't understand these principles of evolution, then you need to meet me 1/2 way. You need to educate yourself. Start with Hamilton's paper on the evolution of social behavior. Here is the abstract and the journal you need to look up.

    Journal of Theoretical Biology
    Volume 7, Issue 1, July 1964, pages 1-16

    The genetical evolution of social behaviour. I

    W.D. Hamilton

    Abstract

    A genetical mathematical model is described which allows for interactions between relatives on one another's fitness. Making use of Wright's Coefficient of Relationship as the measure of the proportion of replica genes in a relative, a quantity is found which incorporates the maximizing property of Darwinian fitness. This quantity is named “inclusive fitness”. Species following the model should tend to evolve behaviour such that each organism appears to be attempting to maximize its inclusive fitness. This implies a limited restraint on selfish competitive behaviour and possibility of limited self-sacrifices.

    Special cases of the model are used to show (a) that selection in the social situations newly covered tends to be slower than classical selection, (b) how in populations of rather non-dispersive organisms the model may apply to genes affecting dispersion, and (c) how it may apply approximately to competition between relatives, for example, within sibships. Some artificialities of the model are discussed.
    Once you get through that, and part 2, move on to the previous works I listed...In ORDER! It won't make sense if you skip around. So go on to Triver's work on Reciprocal Altruism, Axelrod's work on the Prisoners Delema, and then when you get to the work by Toobey and Cosmides' you will have enough information to either support me, or at least challenge me with some cogent arguments. Or you could be cool with the fact that I take this fairly lightly and accept the fact that I am doing my best to explain these concepts as best I can to an audience of laymen. What ever floats you boat is fine with me.

    Cheers,
    Erik

    "meLt": The Evolution of the Vanishing Deck!
    "The best mentalists are at Theory 11" - No One Ever

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