Theory11: Magic or Cardistry

[caruso]

hey guys,

here i come to ask an opinion,
i know its both, but one side i think is clearly taking over.... but which?

is theory11 more of a magic site or a cardistry site?

cast your vote, show your side, speak your thoughts

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caruso here,
i got into magic about 2 months ago, my first flourishy cuts where:
-the old basic sibyl ( took me a whole month to leanr it)
-and the butterfly cut (which i still cant do)

i think this site is
90% cardistry,
8% contests
1% me,
and 1% magic

[caruso]

WOOO first pot YAY!!!! and 1st poll entry YAY!!

makes me feel special

[Brad Henderson]

What exactly do you mean by "cardistry"?

Brad Henderson

[Aris.SA]

I think that it has its mgic side and cardistry side, thats why richard, DnD, DM are here :P and some others to make sure that cardistry remains on t11 as equal as magic..

[Aris.SA]

I think he means this :P Cardistry :P (http://www.cardistry.com/)

[..:Darian:..]

WOOO first pot YAY!!!!


First pot? Dude, don't do drugs.

I think it's both but I'm leaning towards "cardistry" and XCM, since those are the only subjects I comment on.... :rolleyes:

[wilfred]

of course it's magic. Cardistry is just a sidedish.

[Farrell]

of course it's magic. Cardistry is just a sidedish.

How do you know it isn't cardistry with a magic "sidedish"?

[jonraiker]

Caruso,

I don't think that your 1% estimate is a fair judgment by any stretch, as all but one of our DVD's to date have been entirely magic effects, and the vast majority of our team is made up of magicians (although some flourish as well).

That said, we believe in cardistry as an artform and will continue to strive for equal emphasis in the months and years to come. Our team places both in equal regard, and we try to maintain a solid balance as much as possible.

[Jakeh]

Hm. Well, heaps of people flourish on this site and there are quite a few 1-on-1's and media submissions which are all just flourishing.. but, it's still more of a magic site to me.

So, it's a magic site where HEAPS AND HEAPS of people flourish. *nods*

[Angathorion]

Both artforms have a very strong presence, but in very different ways.

Magic dominates the Tricks section of the site, while cardistry apparently has a powerful presence in the Media section. I'd say the two are on equal footing as far as the 1-on-1s and the forums are concerned.

;)

[caruso]

ok. on the second post i didn't mean 'pot' but 'post' so sorry.....

and the 1% magic it was just expressing my thoughts meaning that it is a little magic, because i know that all the official t11 DVDs are magic, but most people here flourish, or flourish and magic...

i think it is: a magic site with a big flourisher community

[Brad Henderson]

Aris,

Thanks.

Now how is that different from Flourishing, per se?

Brad

(Allow me to explain why I ask. Several years ago the whole flourish/magic/XCM thing was being widely discussed in magic journals. Dan and Dave had an appearance in Genii magazine, and it raised a lot of questions. I thought the "movement" for lack of a better term might stick around for a while, and rather than stick my head in the sand - as some magicians wanted to do - I thought it would be worthwhile to learn who was behind it and what they were trying to do.

So, I was the first person to interview De'Vo. His interview appeared in Genii magazine and he discussed what he felt the XCM movement was and what he was trying to do. He discussed how it fit in with magic - and didn't - and how it was similar and different from just flourishes.

Now, I see this term - cardistry - and just wanted to know what it was, if it was some "new" genre or just a new word.

I appreciate your help.

Thanks)

[Aris.SA]

Aris,

Thanks.

Now how is that different from Flourishing, per se?

Brad

(Allow me to explain why I ask. Several years ago the whole flourish/magic/XCM thing was being widely discussed in magic journals. Dan and Dave had an appearance in Genii magazine, and it raised a lot of questions. I thought the "movement" for lack of a better term might stick around for a while, and rather than stick my head in the sand - as some magicians wanted to do - I thought it would be worthwhile to learn who was behind it and what they were trying to do.

So, I was the first person to interview De'Vo. His interview appeared in Genii magazine and he discussed what he felt the XCM movement was and what he was trying to do. He discussed how it fit in with magic - and didn't - and how it was similar and different from just flourishes.

Now, I see this term - cardistry - and just wanted to know what it was, if it was some "new" genre or just a new word.

I appreciate your help.

Thanks)
Check this (http://more.cardistrz.com/cardistry_faq.php) out, Brad.



Hope this helps =)

[Brad Henderson]

It does, and it doesn't.

It does answer my question (thank you for pointing me there) but it raises too many more.

While I can appreciate what he is trying to do, his definitions do not do a good job of defining how and why "cardistry" is different from the other terms. (It doesn't help that he says "Cardistry and Card Flourishing actually mean essentially the same thing. " He offers some delineations, but these are not clear and easily refuted with examples - nor does he offer enough examples to establish how cardistry has gone beyond things which are "essentially the same."

He ignores the fact that acts comprised on nothing more than fans, spreads, springs, etc. have been performed for decades - thereby making his "cardistry as something both stands alone and is different/more evolved" an inaccurate view.

He confuses the matter further when he says one can combine "cardistry" and magic in the four ace production example. Seems to me, that puts us right back to where we were with the flourishes.

So, while I think I have a better idea of what is intended by the term, I do not think these definitions have been considered to the degree necessary for understanding, let alone acceptance.

Brad HEnderson

[copperfield 14]

It does, and it doesn't.

It does answer my question (thank you for pointing me there) but it raises too many more.

While I can appreciate what he is trying to do, his definitions do not do a good job of defining how and why "cardistry" is different from the other terms. (It doesn't help that he says "Cardistry and Card Flourishing actually mean essentially the same thing. " He offers some delineations, but these are not clear and easily refuted with examples - nor does he offer enough examples to establish how cardistry has gone beyond things which are "essentially the same."

He ignores the fact that acts comprised on nothing more than fans, spreads, springs, etc. have been performed for decades - thereby making his "cardistry as something both stands alone and is different/more evolved" an inaccurate view.

He confuses the matter further when he says one can combine "cardistry" and magic in the four ace production example. Seems to me, that puts us right back to where we were with the flourishes.

So, while I think I have a better idea of what is intended by the term, I do not think these definitions have been considered to the degree necessary for understanding, let alone acceptance.

Brad HEnderson

Cardistry is a word that richard dug up and used it for decknique. There is no difference. People say cardistry because they think it sounds better. Oh and I think I saw your interview on youtube
Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1LIvtVa16w)
Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn_ugQnzUZk&feature=related)
Flourishers such as Devo, Dan and Dave, DanielMadison have helped the community tremendlesy. Without them most us would have been like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StUIJQ-aYFA) guy.

[adjones]

There's more magic products, but it seems likemost of the users here are cardists, and that's what constitutes most of the videos, as well. I would like to see more magic, but that's just the way it is.

[Tai]

I used to be a magician, but now I'm moving almost completely to flourishing, which I think I'm a lot better at. (XD)

So it's nice to see T11 as a mutual magic AND flourishing community, because PM forums are magic anti-flourisher dominated and Decknique is almost the opposite, but I don't think DN has a problem with magicians...

Anyway, I think flourishing dominates the media section (for those magicians here that don't know, Decknique lost its media section when it merged with T11) but the forums have way more magic.

[kevin]

I think it is a magic site because, look at the founders: magicians. of course flourishing/xcm/cardistry or whatever you want to call it will still be there throughout magic, only because most magicians can flourish.

kevin

[MikeGoyke]

Without them most us would have been like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StUIJQ-aYFA) guy.

Oh...My...God

[SHANE BLACK]

Oh...My...God

Yeah David Ginn reminds me of my grandpa trying to do magic. As far as the topic goes I like to think of T11 having a ying yang balance to it. Without the flourishes and magicians alike on here it wouldn't be T11. I can go to E or DnD and both are on the opposite sides of the spectrum but I come here I can discuss flourishing one day if thats my choice and then magic the next. I going half and half on this one.

Shane

[Tai]

...only because most magicians can flourish.

kevin


Most magicians can do a basic flourish or two, but those who aren't dedicated to it and practice it don't do them well.

[dejavu05]

I think kind of both. But at the same time, I just think that flourishing is used to make magic better. I think that florishing is used to make the audience go wow and think that it is really cool and they have really put in practice. I think it is just eye candy.

[Brad Henderson]

That was great, but sadly not the interview I did!

[Tai]

Interviews aren't rules, it's an opinion.

I think it depends on point of view. I'm no magician, although I used to be, and I think flourishing and magic do not go together, period, but somehow T11 gets them both on one website.

[copperfield 14]

That was great, but sadly not the interview I did!

I know. If you watched all of it you would have known it was a joke.:D

[SHANE BLACK]

Seriously those interviews are freakin hilarious. Nice!

Shane

[Brad Henderson]

Oh, I got the joke. I thought it was great.

Brad

[Aris.SA]

It does, and it doesn't.

It does answer my question (thank you for pointing me there) but it raises too many more.

While I can appreciate what he is trying to do, his definitions do not do a good job of defining how and why "cardistry" is different from the other terms. (It doesn't help that he says "Cardistry and Card Flourishing actually mean essentially the same thing. " He offers some delineations, but these are not clear and easily refuted with examples - nor does he offer enough examples to establish how cardistry has gone beyond things which are "essentially the same."

He ignores the fact that acts comprised on nothing more than fans, spreads, springs, etc. have been performed for decades - thereby making his "cardistry as something both stands alone and is different/more evolved" an inaccurate view.

He confuses the matter further when he says one can combine "cardistry" and magic in the four ace production example. Seems to me, that puts us right back to where we were with the flourishes.

So, while I think I have a better idea of what is intended by the term, I do not think these definitions have been considered to the degree necessary for understanding, let alone acceptance.

Brad HEnderson
Hey contact Richard or lets wait until he posts here the answers to your questions... Its good to have here a Genii writer, think about an interview to Richard about Cardistry, or a report about the term Cardistry... Would be cool

Aris

[richard]

Hey contact Richard or lets wait until he posts here the answers to your questions... Its good to have here a Genii writer, think about an interview to Richard about Cardistry, or a report about the term Cardistry... Would be cool

Aris

Thanks Aris, I sent Brad a PM about the points he raised. Didn't want to make this thread go too off topic with a whole discussion on terminology.

[trashmanf]

This site is about magic, started by magicians, look at the logo it says "magic epicenter", when you're on google it doesn't say learn underground flourishes it says learn magic tricks, all their custom decks are designed for magic and not flourishing in mind, all (yes every single one) of t11's one-trick ellusionist style DVDs and gimmicks are magic.

flourishing is something that a few of the MAGICIANS dabble in on the side. the exception being richard of course. theory 11 is a magic website that noticed that this flourishing stuff is getting pretty hot and figured they'd pull in richard to make something happen. which he's doing a great job with.

[AllanLuu]

I feel that theory11's community has a large portion that is into this cardistry.

jonraiker, I would like to see flourishing/ cardistry come into the same league as magic but right now, anyone that flourishes is considered a "card punk". Magic is also in another league because I don't think somone is going to hire you for a gig to sit there and perform cobra cuts and Jackson 5's all night, it may look cool, but magic is much cooler looking in a spectators eyes from what I have experienced.

Thats just my 2 cents, what do you think....

[copperfield 14]

Alright just to clear things out. Theory11 members majority wise are magic lovers. The members who post cardistry videos are members from decknique. Some of the members here don't even like flourishing. The products sold here are magic. The magic videos that are submitted are boring to watch and are from members here. I hope that in the near future theory11 makes a balance with both magic and cardistry.

[SHANE BLACK]

Alright just to clear things out. Theory11 members majority wise are magic lovers. The members who post cardistry videos are members from decknique. Some of the members here don't even like flourishing. The products sold here are magic. The magic videos that are submitted are boring to watch and are from members here. I hope that in the near future theory11 makes a balance with both magic and cardistry.

We'll I can't argue with you the fact that there's a serious issue here of pick and choose on media that they will allow. But I wouldn't say all of the media is boring though. I have submitted atleast 3 performances in Putfile and Youtube format and none of mine have been accepted. I submitted a Morgan Streblers Liquid Metal Performance of me at the Water Gardens in Fort Worth which everyone seemed to love it over at E. And the other 2 where live performances as well all where denied so I just stopped submitting footage on T11. I think we need more live performance media but that's a different topic and I don't really want to get all into that right now.

Shane