March 08 :: Custom Playing Cards

[waynehouchin]

With the recent release of our Bicycle Centurions (http://www.theory11.com/playingcards/centurions.php) I thought it would be appropriate that this months topic revolves around a debate that many have been having within the community for a few years now. It was also suggested by AllanLuu:

How does the use of specialized deck of cards affect a performance for laymen?

Here are my immediate thoughts: Laymen ARE NOT card connoisseurs. For the most part, they have no clue what a "normal deck of cards" is. I have used many different types of cards over the years - everything from regular Bicycles to the newly released Centurions. I am speaking from much experience when I say that laymen - for the most part - don't know, nor do they care.

There are a few exceptions however. Take Ellusionist's Ghost deck. The artwork on the face of these cards confuse laymen. When I filmed Stigmata - I used the Ghost deck a lot. I have hours worth of outtakes from performances that we could not use because the spectators either forgot the card, mis-remembered their card, or were just so distracted by the cards that the cards themselves actually interrupted the performance.

With the popularity of poker on television, your average laymen has seen many different kinds of cards. Laymen DO NOT assume that Bicycle is the be all end all of playing cards - indeed, most laymen have now idea what a Bicycle deck of cards is. As long as the deck does not interrupt my performance, distract or confuse my audience - I have no problem using custom decks. What are your thoughts?

[sky_lark]

I have a large problem with custom decks. Most people I perform to when I use a custom or specialized deck, when they cannot figure out the trick, assume the deck is altered in some way or another.

I am not just referring to actual gaff decks-I am also speaking about normal playing cards with strange artwork.

Generally, I score high with blue or red Bicycles. However, if the gaff is subtle or small, those also do well.

[Hazerman15]

I think a lot of the time a spec will think a deck is gaffed before even seeing the trick. I have introduced cards and before they are out of the box i am asked if they are "special cards".

[ManningMagic]

I like classic bikes. My idea is that if you use nice cards, it does distract(as you said). Flourishing,however is much different. In flourishing you make the cards look cool, but with a custom back design- it makes it that much better.

However, if you get a nice, sharp looking custom deck and really want to use it- don't have it gaffed. If I am going to perform with a tricky looking deck, I want to let the spectator shuffle and handle those cards so they feel content. I want them to feel as though the "magic" that I do is in the performance and sleights, NOT the cards.

[robotsunshine]

I'm not much of a card guy, but I think it depends on the trick. Do something like the Invisible Palm, where the audience merely observes, and a custom deck should be okay to use. It's already a completely visual experience, the custom deck just adds a nice touch.

Also for flourishing, because why not? No one's going to accuse you of using a trick deck there. Why not add some flash?

For tricks involving the spectator, then it gets iffy. But it really depends on the performance. If it's a deck with re-worked faces (say the black tigers, with their all white pips), then you could expect some initial distraction, because that's not just a different deck - that's entirely out of what's considered normal for cards. Whether or not they think it's a trick deck, again, is an entirely different matter - I think that by dribbling, spreading, passing the cards around, you eliminate the trick deck mentality. Most spectators imagine some sort of gizmo INSIDE the deck when they think of a trick deck.

In the end, though, it depends on two things: your conceived image for the trick, and I literally just forgot what the second one was, but I swear I had a second part to that statement. But, anyway - yes, how do you want to present the trick? An everyday impromptu miracle with regular bikes, or a unique feat of showmanship, signature to you, with a custom deck? (true, many others use that same deck, but chances are these people won't run into another magician, much less one that uses that same deck.)

[IIAnnexII]

Personally I don't have a problem with custom decks. If your so worried about your spectators thinking it's a "trick" deck, then let them inspect it until there hearts content. You have nothing to hide right? Of course there is an exception to gaff decks as these can't be handed out for inspection. However all you have to do is a quick deck switch and your good to go. So overall I have no problem with custom decks and since I am into not only magic, but cardistry as well, it greatly enhances my performance. That's my 2 cents. I hope you respect my opinion as I do yours.

-Annex

[Tenchu]

For flourishing - hell yeah!

Custom decks for tricks? Why not!

If you're good, no one will accuse you of using a tricked deck ;)

[word]

when i do a couple card tricks for my friends i'll use a custom deck, and since they know me i dont find it really distracts them and i can play the design into the performance.

Myself, i dont think i would use a custom deck where there are different age groups. i would imagine if one were performing for young adults, 15- 30, then i can see using a stylized deck. something where the faces are a bit different but not visually shocking.

Now when you say "specialized" what does that entail? a normal deck of bikes redesigned? something different from bee, bicycle and tallyho? ie the different casino brands of cardsL ie wynns, jerry nuggets, etc? plastic cards?

[manipulation4food]

especially if you show them the cards, they're not going to care. A normal deck, no, no deck that a magician holds in a normal deck. So either way it doesn't matter i like to use customs for tricks, especially ghosts, makes it a bit more eery.

[Gatitoxxx]

If I use a custom deck or a regular deck I always let the spectators examine the cards. It is important that they see that I do not have trick cards or that the whole thing is a trick deck. This makes some tricks more amazing as, more often than not, I will have cards copped before the trick starts. I may even do a deck switch mid performance. If the trick deck that I pull out has the same back and I pull it out of the same pocket, there is no reason for them to believe that the deck now in my hand is not the one that I have been using.
That said, I simply do not use custom decks when I perform in public. I often use bikes or tallys.

[youngd94]

I agree with wayne

but i found that the so called "smart" people or people who feel threatened by the fact that you are tricking them (the characteristics of a heckler) often jump the the conclusion that they are trick cards (which is completely stupid because if one were to use trick cards they would probably want them to look as "normal" as possible) (so I guess the "smart" people aren't so smart)

One time I pulled out my tiger deck in school, and the nerd/smart-ass in the class immediately said "trick cards huh" he always heckles me. And then i performed tivo 2.0 to a friend and she thought it was amazing but then another kid said "yeah i think they are trick cards"

[AllanLuu]

Wow, this is cool, my suggestion got used for cerca trova, SWEET!

My thoughts are, if the spectator even thinks that you are using a trick deck, then your performance is not what it could be. Whern I perform, I want my spectator to think what I am doing is real magic and fi the thought of a trick deck passes there mind while I am using a fancy deck.

[MitchellStafiej]

When I started using custom decks, I noticed my spectators were calling out my cards. So I switched back to regular Bicycles and the exact same thing happened. Right then and there I knew that it wasn't the cards that was arousing suspicion, instead it was my presentation. So I sat down and thought long and hard about my presentation, I came back with a whole new routine, patter, etc. and was rewarded with good reactions and no suspicion towards my cards.

I use Bicycle Guardians in every performance I do now simply because I love the design.

Mitch

[waynehouchin]

When I started using custom decks, I noticed my spectators were calling out my cards. So I switched back to regular Bicycles and the exact same thing happened. Right then and there I knew that it wasn't the cards that was arousing suspicion, instead it was my presentation. So I sat down and thought long and hard about my presentation, I came back with a whole new routine, patter, etc. and was rewarded with good reactions and no suspicion towards my cards.

I use Bicycle Guardians in every performance I do now simply because I love the design.

Mitch

Perfect! I think that this is an excellent point. Again, a deck of regular red-backed Bicycle playing cards is just as familiar to your average laymen as a deck of Centurions. If you are getting accused of using trick decks, I think it is much more likely that it is something within your presentation & performance that is arousing that suspicion - rather than the deck of cards you are using.

[MitchellStafiej]

Perfect! I think that this is an excellent point. Again, a deck of regular red-backed Bicycle playing cards is just as familiar to your average laymen as a deck of Centurions. If you are getting accused of using trick decks, I think it is much more likely that it is something within your presentation & performance that is arousing that suspicion - rather than the deck of cards you are using.
+1. Cards are cards to laypeople. They see cardboard that isn't worth anything to them. They couldn't care less if they got wet or damaged in any other way. If you have your spectators focus on YOUR MAGIC rather than YOUR CARDS, there won't be ANY suspicion.

Mitch

[Liam Carrie]

I think custom decks should never be used on skeptical spectators or "Hecklers" But custom cards are just perfect for performing for magicians. On the other hand i have a question, A while ago there was a thread called "let's make our own cards" and it included a link which made it possible to make just one custom deck. Whoever started this thread, could you send me the link to that site which let you do that?

[Taotog]

I own many custom decks but when I work I use red or blue bicycles and you know I don't think it really matters. I still get asked if I'm using a trick deck sometimes. I try to use regular decks just for that very reason (at least to start), so that the spectator can freely view the cards and see that they are perfectly normal. If they have seen that and I just happen to switchout the deck they looked at for a gaffed one then so much the better because they are even more baffled and the magic remains intact. So, in the end, I think it depends on how you handle the question, not on the cards themselves.

[Bao Hoang]

Lol

Just to correct even nobody cares, coinnoseurs= Connaisseurs

Well I use regular cards. I could use custom decks with laymens when its not black because people dont ususally play with black decks so i wont use them for magic. Some people doesn't care about that but teenagers does a lot! I see a TONS of hecklers in my school. Someone already checked if it was a brainwave deck. Its not really good to use black decks.

[MoJoe13]

In all fairness, Wayne, you're probably biased because you work for two companies that sell custom decks. However, I'm glad you wrote what you did.

I disagreed loudly with Sankey's rant about custom cards. There are many more cards out there than Bicycle Riders. Heck, Bicycle is marketing custom-colored cards at major retail stores. It's not like magicians and cardists are the only people buying decks that aren't red or blue.

What E and T11 have done is release some incredible custom cards that add to the mystique of a performer. As I wrote in another thread, my Shadow Masters get many appreciative looks. My brown Wynns give my "Gamblers Hate Magicians" routine an added flair. My experience is the same as a previous poster's: My spectators don't accuse me of having trick cards, but they can be distracted by the cards. Ghosts are my usual deck, and once they get over the all-black pips, they are cool with them. And if they ask questions, I'm more than happy to let them inspect it, as soon as I'm clean.

Custom decks have definitely added to my performance. Over the last few years, we've seen design and quality go up several notches. I can't wait to see what comes out in the future.

Which reminds me: I'd love to see T11's take on a joker reveal.

[Virus]

I ALWAYS ALWAYS let them examine the cards. But if they are black tigers, for some reason, someone always says its a trick deck. Most people say its the performers fault but human minds just assume.

[bentley]

People are used to seeing me with custom decks that they just assume it is a regular deck. Plus since bicycle has come out with some decks of their on people just assume I get them from the company. They came out with the tragic deck and all of those kinds and assume I bought something from them. So I have no problem.

[Aos]

Do you guys think the design of the back contributes to suspicion? For example, Ghosts are clearly a bicycle deck which has been severely faded. On the other hand Centurions look highly customized. Which do you think will arouse more suspicion?

Another question is, what about color? Can somebody show me a deck you can buy in a convenience store which is mostly black on the back, let alone on the face? Personally, I think that outstanding colors (like dark black) definitely attract suspicion simply because most people would not see such a color on a deck outside of a magicians performance.

Clearly the presentation plays a role. Like Wayne said, most people don't have a thorough understanding of regular cards, let alone trick cards. So when you insist that they make sure the cards are well and good, in the act of seemingly removing doubt you are contributing to it. Most people in your audience would not know what a stripper, or a Svengali deck is. At best they will have some inkling of a possibility of trick cards existing. So when you tell them to make sure your cards aren't tricky, you are confirming to them that trick cards do exist.

There is also something to be said about being too nonchalant about your sweet deck. I'm assuming that's what happened with the Stigmata shoot. Clearly, the cards that you are handling aren't some run of the mill thing you pick up in a gas station, so why handle them as if they are? I think that either the timing of the tricks need to be adjusted, or the cards need to be shown to the spectators prior to the tricks so that they can get past the point of marveling at them. Ghosts are a good example. I mean, come on. Black outline around hearts/diamonds? That's absolutely gorgeous. We all know that you spent the first hour after first opening the deck to look at the details on every single card. But by the time you are using them to show tricks, you will be taking their outstanding look for granted. It might be this disconnect that trips people up during your performance. Of course, I'm only speculating.

I think there might be a positive side about people thinking you are using a trick deck. Hear me out, this logic is based on a principle that a routine involving a trick deck contains highly similar types of tricks. I think most of us know of a trick which "teaches" the audience how a certain move is done, meanwhile a different thing takes place. This is misdirection at it's finest. We all know that you are not teaching them nothing but where to look during the effect. Isn't it possible that if the spectators think that you are using a trick deck, they will stop carefully looking for specific moves that you are making? And honestly, how many (uniquely different) tricks do you think you have to perform for the same person until they can't logically think that the secret behind all of them is the exact same trick deck? 3? 4? I don't mean come out and say that you are using a trick deck, but try to perform different types of tricks (which is good advice in and of itself) to remove suspicions of a trick deck, instead of telling people to check each card carefully. What do you guys think?

And lastly, for a long time everybody had to use the same plain cards, which were clearly guided for the lowest common denominator. Recently however, we got the ability to create our own custom decks. I think we went overboard. I think that this will change. I think that in the near future we will see custom decks which have a refreshingly simple (not in your face) back design, painted with a simple yet sophisticated color palette. The quality of which will significantly surpass that of the common decks. And I think that this will be the new norm for custom decks.

[TheDruidMerlyne]

I am rather fond of using black decks (Tigers, Shadow Masters and Vipers). I have run across the occasional person that will believe that they are trick decks, and I always allow them to inspect the cards to their hearts content. Most people just think that they are cool looking or whatever. I feel that if you bring attention to the difference in the cards then suspicion will arise. Once I bring out the card I will let people look at them, then I move on with the performance. More often than not, people are more impressed with the effects, than the pretty cards. But if you allow your cards to out shine your skill, then we end up where we started.
If more of us used the custom decks, then laypeople would get used to them. The fact that this thread exists shows that there are enough of us that like using custom decks. So, my challenge to all of you is to go out, use your custom decks and make people believe in the magic, not in the cards.

[Ampersan5340]

80 % chance that you will get accused with a deck of card's that aren't bikes.

I was doing magic and some guy thought that black tally hos were gimmicked.

Same can be said with any other custom deck like guardians or black card's.

But it you use blue or red cards chances are you won't get called on a rigged deck. Most people or poker players are used to a blue or red backs. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be called on a account of cheating if you used red or blue wynn's

[Aos]

If more of us used the custom decks, then laypeople would get used to them.

Exactly. People will get used to them being handled solely by magicians. If you want laypeople to really get used to them, sell them in convenience stores for a buck each, so that they see these cards being played in weekend poker games. Until then, forget about a world where people are truly used to them.

The best thing we can hope for is that custom decks look like regular decks (ie simple design and simple coloring), and are only outstanding in terms of quality.

[MoJoe13]

Can somebody show me a deck you can buy in a convenience store which is mostly black on the back, let alone on the face? Personally, I think that outstanding colors (like dark black) definitely attract suspicion simply because most people would not see such a color on a deck outside of a magicians performance.

Convenience store? Well, no, I couldn't. But I can take you to Target, Wal-Mart, Walgreens or any number of retail, pharmacy or grocery stores and we could buy Bicycle decks in black, silver, gray, purple, pink, lime green and powder blue. We could also buy Bees, Hoyles (which are now Bicycles with a different design), Studs, VIPs, Mavericks, Aviators or any number of different brands. Also, magicians have made good use of Tallys.

As long as spectators see the normal faces (suits and values), they are going to know they are cards. (That's why gaffed cards are so effective. A 13 of Diamonds is unexpected.) Also, it's only when spectators ask about the deck do I show it to them, once I'm clean. I don't invite the question. I just answer it.

[Aos]

I look at the card sections of stores usually and I've never seen non red/blue bikes. Maybe that's because I'm in Canada. But good point nonetheless. I guess it's not as much the colors as it is the design.

[MoJoe13]

What drives me nuts is that every store markets cards differently. If you want a deck of Bicycles in Wal-Mart, then go to the toys & games section and pick up a single deck; that's also where they keep the colored decks, VIPs, Club Casinos and cards with cartoon characters on them. But when you get up to the register, you can find double-packs of Bicycles for a cheaper per-unit price. Why aren't those in the games section? And if you want Hoyles, don't look in the toys & games, or the register shelves... go to the PARTY FAVORS section. WTF?

Target also has most of theirs in the toys & games section, but scatters other cards elsewhere throughout the store. Walgreen's keeps all of theirs in one place. That's where I've found 4-packs with two red decks and two black decks for $10.

I guess throwing cards everywhere in a store ultimately helps magicians who prefer custom decks, so I should keep my mouth shut...

[James1Wise]

Although the fact that you're being called on for a trick deck sucks, if you're really using a regular deck and they still don't belive you when you say it's a normal deck of cards after you do a trick. I concider that a compliment, because that means that I've done my job.

If the spec. can't think of ANY explantion exept that it's a trick deck then that means that you've done your job as a magician/performer. You're done it good enough so they have NO idea how it's even possible.

But if I bust out a Shadow Masters or a Guardan deck and I do a trick, and they ask me if it's a trick deck, I say no and just about all the time they will belive me, so that's good. I'll even let them check out the deck as much as they like to show that it's completly normal, just cool looking.

[MoJoe13]

If you're really using a regular deck and they still don't believe you when you say it's a normal deck of cards after you do a trick, I consider that a compliment, because that means that I've done my job.

I have never thought of it that way before. I have always wanted the credit for having amazing sleight-of-hand skills. Now that I think about it, I like your way a whole lot better.

[RichmanMatthew]

I think that it matters more about the color of the deck than the back design. I use Tally's regularly and don't have a problem. In the rare case that I do, I just point out that it says that the cards are made by the U.S. Playing Card Company. (on the box)

[JackOSpadesNik]

I have a lot of problems with custom decks.

1. I have a hard enough time from people who want to constantly examine a normal deck over and over. Also, so many laymen know about gimmicked decks. People say " I used to have a deck the you can reverse a card and it will stick out in the deck(stripper deck).

Also, people usually aren't familiar with cards, but if your using a deck that no laymen has ever seen before like Tigers, Ghosts, Centurions, ect, it will cause even more suspicsion.

2. I just don't see what purpose they serve unless it's a certain theme. They won't inhance your skills. I you perform a good trick with a custom deck, than a normal, it won't give you a better reaction.

3. The price. T11 has a pretty reasonable price, but at E the Vipers are like $8! $8 for a deck of playing cards, that lasts maybe a week more than the average Bicycle isn't worth it.

4. This is just to a lot of black decks in general. I don't want to go out their and look like I'm some kid who thinks he's really cool due to his black playing cards. Basically don't want to look like that kid who buys all the expensive equipment on the team, but doesn't have anything to show for it.

5. I could get 12 Bikes at Costco for like $13, so why should I buy like 2-3 custom decks for the same or more amount of money.

Just my $00.02

[Aos]

Although the fact that you're being called on for a trick deck sucks, if you're really using a regular deck and they still don't belive you when you say it's a normal deck of cards after you do a trick. I concider that a compliment, because that means that I've done my job.

You have clearly never worked a paying gig. It's not about being complemented, it's about making sure that the audience is enjoying you. I would say that most people don't _really_ believe in magic, but they can entertain the idea. But if they think that you are using a trick deck then it takes them out of that experience, and their enjoyment could plummet. They don't care what you treat as a complement.

[Aos]

4. This is just to a lot of black decks in general. I don't want to go out their and look like I'm some kid who thinks he's really cool due to his black playing cards. Basically don't want to look like that kid who buys all the expensive equipment on the team, but doesn't have anything to show for it.

Amen.

Personally I dabble in custom decks because of their quality. My favorite custom deck is the masters. 0 suspicion, and it costs less than any other custom deck. That's why I want more common looking custom decks, but with outstanding quality.

[Anonymous II]

My thoughts:

- Custom faces makes spectators suspicious. They all know what a regular court card looks like.
- Custom backs doesn't make spectators suspicious, because, as Wayne Houchin says, most laymen don't know what a "normal deck of cards" should look like.

[Hazerman15]

I think a custom deck can do a lot to build up a certain image for a magician. It just adds to their persona.

If I used a custom deck in a gig I would most likely give away the deck at the end of the night.

[Aos]

I think that custom decks already have an image, and most people who get them get them for that image. The problem is that unless you wear eye makeup and a lot of black you can't pull that image off, and the cards look goofy in your hands.

One of the large messages from this site is that you should be yourself as a magician. I think this should apply to kids who get a new (perhaps all black) custom deck and their behavior changes. It's just some paper stuck together and painted... If you think that your performance will be greatly benefited by a fancy deck you need better tricks.

[phrozunsun]

most laymen have now idea what a Bicycle deck of cards is.

cerca trova.

ho trovato un "typo"....:D

as for custom decks, i find most of the time they don't really blame it on the deck if let them inspect it (before and after if you can). Tell them us magicians like yourself are just nerds and like fancy decks. Also, tell them they last longer because they use better paper - they're made for performing.

Any of those 3 will work.

now, using custom decks with gaffs....that's pushing it....you might convince them at first, but after the trick they'll blame the deck again.

[Jakeh]

Although the fact that you're being called on for a trick deck sucks, if you're really using a regular deck and they still don't belive you when you say it's a normal deck of cards after you do a trick. I concider that a compliment, because that means that I've done my job.

If the spec. can't think of ANY explantion exept that it's a trick deck then that means that you've done your job as a magician/performer. You're done it good enough so they have NO idea how it's even possible.

But if I bust out a Shadow Masters or a Guardan deck and I do a trick, and they ask me if it's a trick deck, I say no and just about all the time they will belive me, so that's good. I'll even let them check out the deck as much as they like to show that it's completly normal, just cool looking.

That is EXACTLY how I see it. It obviously means that my sleight of hand was top notch. I love the "trick deck" reactions.

[Cyrus]

I honestly love using custom decks and I don't find there being any problem using them in my performance. I have never had spectators suspect that I'm using a trick deck, they only usually comment on how awesome the deck looks or for people who know me "Ooohhh, you have a new deck!? I wanna see!"

Perhaps I don't have a problem with this because of the way I present myself and present the cards. I present myself as "real" and down to earth, I don't try to blow myself out of proportion. "Don't take yourself too seriously. And don't be too serious about not taking yourself too seriously." - Howard Ogden

I present the cards casually sometimes saying something about how I have an obsession with cards and how I love using cards that look different or snazzy. If its a new custom deck, I may also say something about it being a new deck that I just got. Sometimes as I'm saying this, I'll also be fanning through it or spreading it showing it off and pointing out different features, "Check out what the Ace of Spades looks like in this deck." Then I'll tell them that even though it may look different, its a completely normal deck of cards and I'll show this or sometimes let them examine the deck. Then I perform. I always ALWAYS let the spectators examine the deck after I'm done with my performance, so just as the thought "trick deck" enters their mind, it is completely blown away.

Now as far as why use a custom deck, I think some people have missed the point or haven't caught on to the idea yet or have even tried incorrectly and failed with the lines "Oh its a trick deck." Why do I use a custom deck? The number one reason is that it looks cool and differentiates me from the average person. Even though I present myself as a down to earth guy, I like to subtly suggest that I am something more. Custom decks are a style that you "wear" like a shirt, instead of wearing the plain old shirt that everyone else wears. Custom decks make you unique and even more memorable.

On a side note, I find Wayne's experience with Ghost decks to be very interesting. I had begun to notice something very similar when I used to perform with them. So with that, it is very important to note that the custom deck must not distract from the performance and this is why I love T11's decks so much. The faces of T11's decks look completely normal, so they aren't distracting.

-Cyrus

[Dom Kabala]

Here are my immediate thoughts: Laymen ARE NOT card connoisseurs. For the most part, they have no clue what a "normal deck of cards" is. I have used many different types of cards over the years - everything from regular Bicycles to the newly released Centurions. I am speaking from much experience when I say that laymen - for the most part - don't know, nor do they care. Laymen DO NOT assume that Bicycle is the be all end all of playing cards - indeed, most laymen have now idea what a Bicycle deck of cards is. As long as the deck does not interrupt my performance, distract or confuse my audience - I have no problem using custom decks. What are your thoughts? I too, have used many different brands of playing cards throughout my study of card magic, and I agree with Wayne...laypersons could give a rat's ***what cards you use. But they do get suspicious if your performance is poor. Use whatever cards you feel the most comfortable with. I feel most comfortable with the drab looking Red/Blue Bikes or Tally Hos...
Best regards,
Dom Kabala

[James1Wise]

You have clearly never worked a paying gig. It's not about being complemented, it's about making sure that the audience is enjoying you. I would say that most people don't _really_ believe in magic, but they can entertain the idea. But if they think that you are using a trick deck then it takes them out of that experience, and their enjoyment could plummet. They don't care what you treat as a complement.

No you misunderstand. I understand what you say, and I've done plenty gigs, the fact in the matter is that if they say that I'm using a trick deck and I let them check everything out to make sure it's a normal deck, then that makes it seem even more impossible for them because they know it's not a trick deck, though the fact that they called you on that means that you've tricked them good enough that you have made them think that it's a trick deck.

[Aos]

No you misunderstand. I understand what you say, and I've done plenty gigs, the fact in the matter is that if they say that I'm using a trick deck and I let them check everything out to make sure it's a normal deck, then that makes it seem even more impossible for them because they know it's not a trick deck, though the fact that they called you on that means that you've tricked them good enough that you have made them think that it's a trick deck.

Stripper deck is hard to notice, so are marked decks. When I started I knew trick decks existed so I didn't trust myself when checking a magicians cards. Blatant gimmicks are of course debunked but the really sneaky stuff will sneak by.

[Spock]

I have only been called out a couple of times on carrying a "trick" deck, but I explained that it was normal and let them spread through them and shuffle them etc. and they were cool with it. Someone did think that the Werm was done using a trick deck, though. :rolleyes: I think as long as you do multiple effects that are of completely different styles (a production, an ACR, and a Triumph, for example) in the same routine, most people will realize that it's not just the deck. Most people are smart enough to know that a trick deck will only do one type of thing. Just don't go "For this next trick, I'm going to use this cool reversed color deck with the desaturated court cards" and then put it away before continuing. ;)

[Sinful]

A little while ago there was a short argument on this forum about custom cards. My opinion bounced around a bit. Well, I believe custom cards are fine. I never get called out on them, however, they are a bit expensive. Yes they may last longer, but.... 12 bikes for 12 bucks.... 3 centurions/guardians for 15 bucks. If one deck of Guardians can last as long as 3 or 4 bikes, then great, however, I doubt they can. (I haven't tried to experiment yet.)

If you have the money for them, then great. They do look great. I must say that if you get called out on your cards, it is your presentation. I have been asked a few times (very rarely), but once I told them they were real and let them see them as well, suspicion went away. I never really get asked anymore.

The next time I buy cards when I'm out (which will be soon probably) I think I'll pick up some Centurions. I don't think you should be using ONLY Guardians or ONLY Centurions. I suggest using bikes most often. However, custom decks are fine once in a while. I'm surprised you actually used this topic considering you sell cards yourself yet you are offering an argument against them. I respect that. :)

I'm not sure if I will get either just a few black ghosts and a few Centurions, or just black ghosts. The reason I want black ghosts is because I use thread and thread does work well on the backs of Guardians and Cenurions, however, I do a rising card with thread, and a black line in the front of a white card.... not good. ;) I will surely buy some Centurions though at some point in the future. They are the cheapest of the custom decks and look awesome! :D

-Doug

[RebelAce69]

Great points on both sides everyone. Very fun to read.

Now, I've never been called out while using a custom deck. Most of the time I will usually call out the fact, "Oh, your looking at my cards. They're custom made for exemplary performance for magicians. Now you can check them out if you want, up to you" That's something along the lines of what I would say.

Now, when I was performing for someone from France, They saw my cards on the table I was eating at and noticed the name "Bicycle". So, they asked "Why do you have a deck of cards?" I told her I was a magician. Now this was a deck of Guardians and she saw the word Bicycle and said "we have those one's back in France".

So, just a little something I had happen to me that I thought was interesting. They didn't look at the design, or the colour but, the actual name. Bicycle is world-renowned and people realize that.

Just my thoughts, and story :).

-RA69

[ElyarMagic]

Hey Wayne.

I would agree with you that Ghost deck is a little bit distractive and people get confused what was their crd because pips are a little bit weird but at the same time Ghost Deck is amazing deck. Awesome handling and beautiful design and also last for a really long time.
What about new Centrusion deck of cards they are also good. they are elegant and simple. and dont confuse audience as much as some other decks do.
All i can say is good job.


Thanks
Elyar

[Cyrus]

Now, when I was performing for someone from France, They saw my cards on the table I was eating at and noticed the name "Bicycle". So, they asked "Why do you have a deck of cards?" I told her I was a magician. Now this was a deck of Guardians and she saw the word Bicycle and said "we have those one's back in France".

So, just a little something I had happen to me that I thought was interesting. They didn't look at the design, or the colour but, the actual name. Bicycle is world-renowned and people realize that.

I thought this was really cool. Maybe something we can do as magicians using custom decks is put emphasis on the fact that we are using a deck of Bicycle cards.

-Cyrus

[Steerpike]

I recall having typed up multiple times how I found a way to get around anybody questioning my deck and defaulting to the idea that my cards are a trick deck. And with the ability to search for my previous posts, no one really has any excuse for not reading it at this point.

I maintain my stance that if a funky-looking deck of cards can ruin your performance, you're not a very good showman.

[Aos]

I maintain my stance that if a funky-looking deck of cards can ruin your performance, you're not a very good showman.

Well, unless the cards are hard to read. But I agree. I only participated in this topic because I had nothing else to do. Let's get a better topic next time.

[FliXeRoCk107]

The custom decks i use are good. The Black Tigers are good becuase they still have the red pips on it. The ghost deck is confusing because all the pips are black, and some of my spectators thought that the 7 of hearts was the 7 of clubs or something. Although, it was good for Halloween performing, and it spooked most of my spectators out!

Felix

[JackOSpadesNik]

I recall having typed up multiple times how I found a way to get around anybody questioning my deck and defaulting to the idea that my cards are a trick deck. And with the ability to search for my previous posts, no one really has any excuse for not reading it at this point.

I maintain my stance that if a funky-looking deck of cards can ruin your performance, you're not a very good showman.


But wait. Can you tell me why you would have a funky looking deck while performing in the first place, rather than a normal one?

You bring up the argument that it shouldn't ruin your performance, but I'm asking how can it improve it and what purpose would it serve(unless it has a theme)?

[Cyrus]

But wait. Can you tell me why you would have a funky looking deck while performing in the first place, rather than a normal one?

You bring up the argument that it shouldn't ruin your performance, but I'm asking how can it improve it and what purpose would it serve(unless it has a theme)?

You use a "funky" deck for style in your performance or to catch somebody's attention. The look of the deck can contribute to your style and the image you project as much as the shirt you are wearing does. I'm not saying that a regular deck is bland or not stylish, regular decks can add to style also. But it all depends on your own style also.

If you are wearing darker clothes do you want to have brighter cards which are all white (Ghosts) or red (any red deck) so that they stand out OR do you want a deck that is black and matches the tone of your clothes, whats your style? If you are wearing a blue shirt, do you want a blue deck that matches or do you want a different deck that contrasts? If you are wearing stylish clothes, do you want a deck that looks regular or a deck that also looks stylish? Its all about your specific style.

Different looking cards can also grab a potential spectator's attention. I have been asked so many times if I play poker just because my irregular deck has caught the other person's attention while I was playing around with it. The fact that the spectators may think that its a trick deck at first can actually be a plus if you hand it out to be carefully inspected at the beginning because they are very interested and are investing their time. Somebody who has invested time and energy is less likely to walk away and more likely to enjoy themselves.

-Cyrus

[Skatzo]

I think the only times people accuse me of using trick cards are when they're joking around, and it's a very obvious joke. for example.
"Careful those cards are fixed, handle em wrong and they'll explode on ya."
Which has happened whether I'm using Blue/Red Bikes or any custom deck.

I personally feel a custom deck is for a style and situation, if i'm at a pub or I have a few friends round then i'll bring out a regular deck of blue/red bikes, but if i'm performing at a club or party, where the atmosphere is more 'cool' as it where, then a custom deck matches that atmosphere and you get no complatins about using it.

[ziggyblues]

Well, I am from Europe.. Excactly from Slovakia and If I'm using GHOST deck or regular red-back Bicycle deck it makes no difference to spectator... And that is just because you can't get regular Bicycles over here so easy and NOBODY ever heard about them over here... (except of poker players and magicians)... So they just think its pretty looking deck of cards and usually are not questioning whether the deck is tricky or not. But if they do I simply tell the truth, that I'm using this cards for it's quality and they're made in US and they are not tricky, they are generally used in US and so on... And that's true...

I could not use regular deck of cards made here. Because the quality of the cards made in Austria or in Slovakia is not good for magic and flourishing at all... They break easily (Yeah, for example if you fold a card in half it will simply break so from Pop-Up move of ACR you have TnR), they last like half an hour, they are made just in bridge size, etc....

[I_KnowMagic]

I personaly love regular bicycles. When people see custom cards, most don't know what they are and, as other people have mentioned, suspect they are trick cards. Also, they are way to exspensive! The only custom cards I really like are T11 cards. They handle much better and in my opinion look better than most others.

[waynehouchin]

Great job guys. There have been some great points brought up on both sides of the issues & I have enjoyed reading your actual experiences regarding performing with custom cards. I think it's very interesting that so many of us have had different experiences & I think it raises the question... why? Why do some in our audience suspect gaffed cards & others do not? What are the determining factors? How much of it is due to performance style and presentation - versus the cards themselves? Great job & we'll see you guys next month.