New name for all this!

[Ben Long]

Damnit! I have become confused by all of the different names for the same damn artform! Therefore (yes, therefore) I am creating an all encompassing name for this...

Let's see...

I'll just combine:

Flourishing
XCM
Cardistry
Decknique
...

Alright. The new name is "Flxisqueshcmdiseck!" From now on, everybody call it that. Welcome to the new Flxisqueshcmdiseck forums. What's your favorite Flxisqueshcmdiseck trick?

Any moment, Israeli commandos are going to bust into my house and kill me.
Why Israelis you ask? Israelis are badass. That's why.

[Eddie]

You just lost me after the favorite Flxisqueshcmdiseck "trick" ....

[UnknownEnemyZero]

A name is just a name. Card manipulation sounds just fine to me but unfortunately thanks to several magicians and such there are too many crossovers with just those two words.

[Ben Long]

I'm not sure what this "card manipulation" stuff is. I think you mean to say "Flxisqueshcmdiseck." But it's ok. I forgive you.

The Israeli commandos forgive you also.

[Cardmagic12345]

Decknique is not a term for flourishing its a website lol.

Check it out.

www.decknique.net


I use flourishing because its neutral
and cardistry because thats kinda what I side on.

I don't use XCM because I always get made fun of when I say it to laymen.

[Glenn West]

Decknique is not a term for flourishing its a website lol.

Check it out.

www.decknique.net


I use flourishing because its neutral
and cardistry because thats kinda what I side on.

I don't use XCM because I always get made fun of when I say it to laymen.


First off, flourishing is FAR from neutral. Absolutely nothing about it implies that it could encompass magic as well.

Secondly, I believe it was quite clear in the original post that this was not meant to be taken so seriously.

Thirdly, your laymen are correct, you deserve to be made fun of for using the term "XCM" in front of them :p

[ROY-MAGIC]

israelis are badass? i bet that all israelis flourishers can take you in a flourish battle one by one including me. not all israelis blieve in their god and not all israelis has that stupid clothes we are normal people just like you but the only different is that we speak hebrew. israel and america live in peace and we are helping you in your war at irak i know this is not the place to talk about this stuff but I just wanted to say that we can use this forum just like you and i hope we will combine here. thankes- roy.

[Simpol]

i perfer carditshttp://decknique.net/forums/showthread.php?t=273

[pokerface]

LOL, are you on crack Longman? xD

[Ben Long]

israelis are badass? i bet that all israelis flourishers can take you in a flourish battle one by one including me. not all israelis blieve in their god and not all israelis has that stupid clothes we are normal people just like you but the only different is that we speak hebrew. israel and america live in peace and we are helping you in your war at irak i know this is not the place to talk about this stuff but I just wanted to say that we can use this forum just like you and i hope we will combine here. thankes- roy.

Yes, I know. I've been to Israel many times. You know where Kibbutz Tzuba is?

[thehumanbomb]

I say XCM to laymen because you can't figure out what it means just by hearing the name.

If you'd like to learn more, go to www.WhatIsFlxisqueshcmdiseck.com next Monday at midnight.

[Glenn West]

I say XCM to laymen because you can't figure out what it means just by hearing the name.

If you'd like to learn more, go to www.WhatIsFlxisqueshcmdiseck.com next Monday at midnight.

This would be exactly why I would suggest you DON'T use terms like XCM with Laymen. Unless you are doing it specifically to call attention to the TERM itself, and follow with an explanation.

In the case of XCM, this would just be another reason NOT to use it. Explaining what it stands for would likely get you laughed at. Maybe not to your face, mind you.

Unless you are doing it entirely for the absurdity of it, just remember, you might as well say extreme stamp collecting. In the audiences mind, extreme has connotations of anything BUT playing cards and just sounds laughable being associated with them.

[Ben Long]

See if you can spot the hidden clue for www.WhatIsFlxisqueshcmdiseck.com in the following free-form poem:

Kevin Sweeney was a yonug lad of ten, living
In East Germany (pre 1989). He loved cards and magic
So very very much!
Such Love he had!

Mr. Sweeney (Kevin's Dad) said:
You, my son, shall not play with cards

As the East German Government shall repremand you!
So young Kevin never played with cards ever again.
So it was, and is.


HINT: It's an acrostic!

[UnknownEnemyZero]

Look at the terminology and really really look at it. Look at it connotation and well as the denotation to laymen.

Cardistry, stems from two words.

card - usually a rectangular piece of paper stiff and thin for various uses
artistry - artistic workmanship and quality

I have a problem with this term and this is simply linguistic. The term itself can be confused with another you don't say it right and in casual language may require you to REPEAT it. What did you say? Cartistry? You like to play with carts? Car Artistry? You're a car artist?

Flourishing/Flourisher

flourish - to be successful; to prosper, to be in the height of one's prime

Now this one is weird, cause how many everyday people who've slept through each of their English classes going to know what this word means. Kind of sounds like "flower" or "florist" but you are hardly a person to be messing with flowers, unless it's Valentine's day. Plus personally it sounds gay. Sorry that's just me.

"ECKS SEE EM"

Now this acronym, by itself isn't going to define anything either. XCM? Is that a cult? A game? A reality show? What the hell? NEVER EVER USE THIS for laymen.

Xtreme Card Manipulation

extreme - of a character or kind farthest removed from the ordinary or average; utmost or exceedingly great in degree
manipulation - to handle, manage, or use, esp. with skill, in some process of treatment or performance

Actually saying this actually is good for building associations. There are no foreign terms oh anything that needs defining. About it being death defying or you can tack on extreme to anything. Well, think of it this way, if they think death defying at least their thinking in the direction of something out of the norm and definitely something they've never seen before. Even if the word extreme is too tacky or cliche, "card manipulation" gets the job just fine.

For my standpoint just plain "card shark" is fine to label yourself as. People get that and there is no question.

[UnknownEnemyZero]

This would be exactly why I would suggest you DON'T use terms like XCM with Laymen. Unless you are doing it specifically to call attention to the TERM itself, and follow with an explanation.

In the case of XCM, this would just be another reason NOT to use it. Explaining what it stands for would likely get you laughed at. Maybe not to your face, mind you.

Unless you are doing it entirely for the absurdity of it, just remember, you might as well say extreme stamp collecting. In the audiences mind, extreme has connotations of anything BUT playing cards and just sounds laughable being associated with them.

Is it laughable that magicians still use playing cards when they're said to have magical powers? "I'm such a skilled magician I still use playing cards to demonstrate my awesome magical talent!" Point is their both stupid. But the only reason XCM is a great term within the community is the division. To create it's own artform completely devoid of magic entirely. So one day someone can completely bypass the lesson on the double lift and mechanics grip and go straight for the fanning and one-handed cuts. May sound laughable now. But just because something sounds stupid now doesn't mean it won't have meaning for the future.

The "White House" was just a slang for the presidential housing in Washington D.C. hundreds of years ago used by everyday people. Look at the term today, it's completely 100% associated with the same building and reporters, politicians, and everyone else uses "white house."

Even more recent example, The Nintendo Wii. Sure everyone was firing their penis and weewee jokes when the annoucement was made. But you sure don't hear those now do we. It was a successful platform that brought a new view on gaming and continues as such even if it did have a questionable and laughable name people will still pay for it and enjoy it regardless of the person who gave the name.

[Vinnie C.]

Flourishing/Flourisher

flourish - to be successful; to prosper, to be in the height of one's prime

Now this one is weird, cause how many everyday people who've slept through each of their English classes going to know what this word means. Kind of sounds like "flower" or "florist" but you are hardly a person to be messing with flowers, unless it's Valentine's day. Plus personally it sounds gay. Sorry that's just me.

Your definition is incorrect, used in this way the definition is:

Flourish (noun): a dramatic body movement that attracts attention, e.g. a sweep of the hand

Or the verb form: to wave something in a dramatic way that draws attention to it

As for people not knowing what it means. It's a fairly common word, especially in a GREAT number of books, "he picked up the remote with a flourish", "she directed the orchestra in a flourishy way", etc.

Actually saying this actually is good for building associations. There are no foreign terms oh anything that needs defining. About it being death defying or you can tack on extreme to anything. Well, think of it this way, if they think death defying at least their thinking in the direction of something out of the norm and definitely something they've never seen before. Even if the word extreme is too tacky or cliche, "card manipulation" gets the job just fine.

For my standpoint just plain "card shark" is fine to label yourself as. People get that and there is no question.

But there is a chance that people will think the term is totally ridiculous, and not take you seriously. Why bother risking that when you can use a term like "card shark", as you mentioned, which is well understood by laymen. I also like "card manipulation".

-Vince

[trashmanf]

UEZ made some good points near the end there.

Basically, the only thing "cardistry" has going for it Richard's opinion and whomever chooses to follow it. who lets face it has done a lot to advance the term, with his own website, and later when his website got bought, onto theory 11.

But "XCM" while it gets the same polarizing opinions, ACTUALLY HAS SOME PRODUCTS released under de'vos work, so when years have passed, and all the fanboys that argue about this crap are bored with Flxisqueshcmdiseck and have moved onto other hobbies, someone new will come along and look for something to buy... he will ONLY see XCM products, so XCM is the name for it, like it or not!

if yall want Flxisqueshcmdiseck or Cardistry or any other arbitrary new favorite term, yall will have to actually RELEASE SOMETHING with that name on it!!!! and hope that more people buy it than are already buying stuff that's branded XCM!!!

[UnknownEnemyZero]

Your definition is incorrect, used in this way the definition is:

Flourish (noun): a dramatic body movement that attracts attention, e.g. a sweep of the hand

Or the verb form: to wave something in a dramatic way that draws attention to it

As for people not knowing what it means. It's a fairly common word, especially in a GREAT number of books, "he picked up the remote with a flourish", "she directed the orchestra in a flourishy way", etc.



But there is a chance that people will think the term is totally ridiculous, and not take you seriously. Why bother risking that when you can use a term like "card shark", as you mentioned, which is well understood by laymen. I also like "card manipulation".

-Vince

I really don't see it that way, sure it will pop up in books sometimes, but still kind of iffy depending on the people you deal with.

I pulled the definition for flourish off of dictionary.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/flourish

But I applied a definition that would make most sense in everyday language, but you are correct that is one of the definitions of flourish.

Being ridiculed for terminology? Well in that case whatever you call it, whatever your providing should overshadow that anyway, and throw couple overhead springs to shut them up or something. I highly doubt people will try to ridicule you if you have the skills to back it up at least not in public. Besides stand behind your words, seriously. Kind of spineless to let some ridicule stop you from using a sensible name for what you do.

[Ben Long]

Here's another www.WhatIsFlxisqueshcmdiseck.com hidden clue/poem!

Is it time to show

Everyone in the palace of Narglaria
A deck of cards? Perhaps it is
Too soon for them to see true

Beauty. Perhaps they are
Un-interested in a brand-spankin'-
New deck of cards for they shun that which is superflous!
Never shall they spring cards forth from their fingers,
In the manner of the legendary Flxisqueshcmdiseck-ers!
Ever so slowly, they will fade into memory,
Slumbering in the shadows of the great poo-bah!


Hint: It's another acrostic!

[Vinnie C.]

But "XCM" while it gets the same polarizing opinions, ACTUALLY HAS SOME PRODUCTS released under de'vos work, so when years have passed, and all the fanboys that argue about this crap are bored with Flxisqueshcmdiseck and have moved onto other hobbies, someone new will come along and look for something to buy... he will ONLY see XCM products, so XCM is the name for it, like it or not!

We'll see, it's hard to see exactly what the future holds. De'vo's products sure as hell won't be the only ones on the market. ;)

I really don't see it that way, sure it will pop up in books sometimes, but still kind of iffy depending on the people you deal with.

I pulled the definition for flourish off of dictionary.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/flourish

But I applied a definition that would make most sense in everyday language, but you are correct that is one of the definitions of flourish.

Compare the definitions. What is a flourish? A fancy and showy move with cards. What is a definition of the laymen word "flourish"? A showy move with an object or body part. I think it's the correct definition. :)

Being ridiculed for terminology? Well in that case whatever you call it, whatever your providing should overshadow that anyway, and throw couple overhead springs to shut them up or something. I highly doubt people will try to ridicule you if you have the skills to back it up at least not in public. Besides stand behind your words, seriously. Kind of spineless to let some ridicule stop you from using a sensible name for what you do.

I think long-term and in-depth. The employer will want to call you what you call yourself, for the sake of simplicity. If you're called an "Extreme Card Manipulator", will he really want that on his wedding invitation? I'm not thinking like me here, I'm thinking like the general public. Even De'vo insists that you don't use Extreme Card Manipulator for laymen. :p

Sensible name? That's LARGELY a matter of opinion, bro. I'd prefer to be billed as "Card Shark" or "Magician and Manipulator" or "Expert Card Handler", etc. I'm willing to bet that those are the names that De'vo uses for the public. :)

-Vince

[trashmanf]

How about, "Omnipotent Card Master and Commander" :D

also, i agree that if a bunch of DVDs come out with the name "cardistry" or whatever then THAT name will start being taken seriously and used by more people. But it's still not gonig to work to call yourself a "Cardiste" on your business card ;)

[Monkeyofmanipulation]

One day everyone will realize that the only logical name for it is carDING.
You know you love it.

ok maybe not. WOw, well hopefully this will be cleared up soon and then we can all say "are you a carDING dude? "
other man replies " why yes!"
" wow lets become best friends!"
"ok!" they embrace.

[trashmanf]

um, sounds like that could probably happen...maybe in san francisco...

I really don't care if DVDs come out called Carding, Cardistry, Cardspackling or whatever, because any DVDs coming out would be great, there's not enough material out there as it is :D

[Ben Long]

The Third and Final hidden clue/poorly concieved poem:

But how ever could the magician,
A boy of mere thirty, ever
Become the greatest magician
In his era?
Every night, he practiced,
Sadly, he still was worthless after three years.

A real man has conviction.
Real conviction, the magician had naught. He was
Easily the least convicted magician ever.

Cod is not a good fish to consume from a can.
How do I know? Because I
Eat it on a regular basis.
Why do I do this if I hate it so?
You would too if you had a third nipple.


Again, this one is an acrostic.

And if you're still too lazy to crack open a Websters (although Oxford English is better), then just read the first letter of each damn line for the "hidden" clues.

[C=B]

hahahaha that was very funny.. haha :)

[Glenn West]

Is it laughable that magicians still use playing cards when they're said to have magical powers? "I'm such a skilled magician I still use playing cards to demonstrate my awesome magical talent!" Point is their both stupid. But the only reason XCM is a great term within the community is the division. To create it's own artform completely devoid of magic entirely. So one day someone can completely bypass the lesson on the double lift and mechanics grip and go straight for the fanning and one-handed cuts. May sound laughable now. But just because something sounds stupid now doesn't mean it won't have meaning for the future.

The "White House" was just a slang for the presidential housing in Washington D.C. hundreds of years ago used by everyday people. Look at the term today, it's completely 100% associated with the same building and reporters, politicians, and everyone else uses "white house."

Even more recent example, The Nintendo Wii. Sure everyone was firing their penis and weewee jokes when the annoucement was made. But you sure don't hear those now do we. It was a successful platform that brought a new view on gaming and continues as such even if it did have a questionable and laughable name people will still pay for it and enjoy it regardless of the person who gave the name.

My problem with XCM, is using the acronym, and the word "extreme."

I am fine with just card manipulation, or hell even card juggling, and if you think it is above juggling, tell that to a juggler.

Calling it "extreme" sounds laughable simply because it is not extreme. Especially in a world with EXTREME sports etc, handling cards is nothing compared to that and to use the same term to describe the two is to try and put them side by side.

As for the Wii, I still laugh at it, but I never laughed because of its name.

I really don't see it that way, sure it will pop up in books sometimes, but still kind of iffy depending on the people you deal with.

I pulled the definition for flourish off of dictionary.com

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/flourish

But I applied a definition that would make most sense in everyday language, but you are correct that is one of the definitions of flourish.

Being ridiculed for terminology? Well in that case whatever you call it, whatever your providing should overshadow that anyway, and throw couple overhead springs to shut them up or something. I highly doubt people will try to ridicule you if you have the skills to back it up at least not in public. Besides stand behind your words, seriously. Kind of spineless to let some ridicule stop you from using a sensible name for what you do.

Flourish (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=yNZ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=flourish+definition&spell=1)


It is a rather common definition, and is also nothing new, using it to mean a fancy gesture, etc.

This is quite a common way for people (laymen) to interpret the word too. Also, as for having the skills to back it up, you better be juggling razor sharp cards lit on fire to back up extreme.

um, sounds like that could probably happen...maybe in san francisco...

I really don't care if DVDs come out called Carding, Cardistry, Cardspackling or whatever, because any DVDs coming out would be great, there's not enough material out there as it is :D

LOL, Cardspackling it is. Expect to see the new dvd in the next few months.

Check out www.whatiscardspackling.com

[UnknownEnemyZero]

Flourish (http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=yNZ&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=flourish+definition&spell=1)


It is a rather common definition, and is also nothing new, using it to mean a fancy gesture, etc.

This is quite a common way for people (laymen) to interpret the word too. Also, as for having the skills to back it up, you better be juggling razor sharp cards lit on fire to back up extreme.

There is a difference between watching things done on a laptop or on TV than stuff being done right in front of you. People appreciate things more when done in person and will easily be okay with words like "extreme" and "cards" going together. This works well when your using actual impactful moves.

[Vinnie C.]

There is a difference between watching things done on a laptop or on TV than stuff being done right in front of you. People appreciate things more when done in person and will easily be okay with words like "extreme" and "cards" going together. This works well when your using actual impactful moves.

I perform for people on a CONSTANT basis, at the Magic Castle no less, doing magic AND manipulation. I see exactly how people react to which moves. So you can trust me on this subject. :p

As far as impact moves go, yes, they get great reactions, but can you fill an entire show with JUST impact moves? I used to call myself an extreme card manipulator, but I was always uncomfortable with the term.

I'll be doing some tests soon to see which terms laymen like the most.

-Vince

[trashmanf]

vinnie, i didn't know you were a regular at the magic castle that is awesome! is it around the LA area, I'd love to stop by and check it out next time I'm in town (my girffriends from there and i travel to CA a lot for business too)

[Vinnie C.]

vinnie, i didn't know you were a regular at the magic castle that is awesome! is it around the LA area, I'd love to stop by and check it out next time I'm in town (my girffriends from there and i travel to CA a lot for business too)

Yeah man, I'm there all of the time. Not performing official shows, mind you, rather more intimate performances for people strolling around, between shows, etc. :)

Yes, it's in the L.A. area. :)

-Vince

[UnknownEnemyZero]

I perform for people on a CONSTANT basis, at the Magic Castle no less, doing magic AND manipulation. I see exactly how people react to which moves. So you can trust me on this subject. :p

As far as impact moves go, yes, they get great reactions, but can you fill an entire show with JUST impact moves? I used to call myself an extreme card manipulator, but I was always uncomfortable with the term.

I'll be doing some tests soon to see which terms laymen like the most.

-Vince

Well in that sort of venue your sort of competing for attention. Usually the ideal situation for this stuff is to make you the number one master on this card manipulation and what your performing is something that no one else in the world can do. I can see where your coming from.

Not sure about the entire shows cause personally I've never done them like that. But ask Jerry more about that cause he'd be the number one source on card manipulation shows. But also in any show like that you'll have your patter, laugh getters, and whatnot; no one was saying you should be able to sustain all of the audiences attention for an entire show. It's like going to the next magic effect without shutting up and giving time to the audience to react and clam down for the next effect. Card manipulation does have story telling though. Great example Jerry gives: The Houdini double armspread story, how people said it was impossible and everything, and how even Houdini's peers couldn't do it, and you can end that story with a great armspread routine ending in, of course, the double armspreads. Fanning decks also provide a great source of manipulation to show off cause their not your usual bicycles and ho's but sort of exotic. The American Flag deck has story too cause it eventually makes the American flag in a giant fan, I believe Jerry referred to it as Fan-O-Rama. Course you have to apply some kind of presentation to it, you can't just bust out the decks out of nowhere.

I speaking and referencing Jerry's remarks about routines he does for real performances so I'm not sure of all details but you get the gist of it.

[Ben Long]

So, here it is. Flxisqueshcmdiseck is finally revealed!

All of the answers to all of your questions will be answered.

So, here it is.

It doesn't matter. I'll forgo the Shakespeare rose metaphor, but who gives a damn what you call it? Do we all love to do that thing that we do? Certainly.

Using cards, manipulating them, making embellished movements and displays. A picture (or routine) is worth a thousand words, no? If somebody has no clue what we're talking about when we say "flourish" or "XCM," we'll just show them Sybil or W.E.R.M. or CTG. They'll go something along the lines of "Oh! das some mad crazy skeells 'choo got theh, bruthah!"

And they won't give a damn if it's a flourish or an extreme manipulation of cards.

It eez what it eez.

...

But most importantly, it's Flxisqueshcmdiseck.

[trashmanf]

i dont get what youre saying longman. what the hell is a Sasiuaib?

[Ben Long]

i dont get what youre saying longman. what the hell is a Sasiuaib?

No, see this one was an acrostic for the last letter of each line. The message I was trying to get across was "ddsoyatthszk."

Duh.

[Glenn West]

There is a difference between watching things done on a laptop or on TV than stuff being done right in front of you. People appreciate things more when done in person and will easily be okay with words like "extreme" and "cards" going together. This works well when your using actual impactful moves.


And what exactly does that have to do with ANYTHING I said? again, "extreme" is putting your fancy cuts next to base jumping and juggling flaming knives on a unicycle on a tightrope, above a shark tank, which is also filled with rocks, sharp ones, with lots of pointy parts..

[UnknownEnemyZero]

And what exactly does that have to do with ANYTHING I said? again, "extreme" is putting your fancy cuts next to base jumping and juggling flaming knives on a unicycle on a tightrope, above a shark tank, which is also filled with rocks, sharp ones, with lots of pointy parts..

The point is, amazement is perceived differently when in real-life, right in front of them, rather through some computer or something. I highly doubt everyday people see people juggling chainsaws on fire and unicycle on tightropes above sharks IN PERSON. Who cares if the association is completely off the wall if you analyze it. The person could care less about the word association that is general paired with *insert examples stated by Glenn West* being paired with a deck of playing cards.

If that's not definition enough, watch a video of some guy getting shot in the head. I'm pretty sure if you were demented enough to go look for it you can see it on the Internet or rent the Faces of Death. Watch some guy get shot in the head in real life right in front of you. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE, sorry for the dramatic imagery. But this is the point I'm trying to make.

[Sean [that's heavy...]]

...Thirdly, your laymen are correct, you deserve to be made fun of for using the term "XCM" in front of them :p

Hear hear!

[trashmanf]

I actually agree with UEZ on this one - the "extreme" is the pinnacle, highest point of something...

to most laymen, the skilled card manipulator WILL be performing the most extreme skill, the pinnacle of card spackling, they have EVER seen, in person. probably on TV as well!

it's just like people that say "oh I can't believe you're wearing that goofy looking shirt" or whatever - but if you go out there confidently, you can totally pull it off. like , you wear the clothes, don't let the clothes wear you.

if you're already embarrassed for saying something like "XCM" then you're obviously not very confident in your ability (maybe you sux? so your ability won't really appear eXtreme to them?)

if you roll up on someone and just blow them away with amazing skill, you could even call it "Extreme Death Cardistry Flourishing" and they would say, badass!

[Vinnie C.]

Well in that sort of venue your sort of competing for attention. Usually the ideal situation for this stuff is to make you the number one master on this card manipulation and what your performing is something that no one else in the world can do. I can see where your coming from.

I'm the only manipulator there, and one of only two people who do walkaround.

Of course you have other things in shows, patter, presentation, audience involvement, jokes, etc etc. But my point was that a show could hardly be filled with ONLY the BIG impact moves. Well, it could, but it would be kind of a short show. :p

Trashman, we know what extreme means, but that's hardly the point here. It's the fact that "XTREME" this and "XTREME" that has been sooo overused in society, it sounds cheesey. Why not use something that a laymen can really connect with?

-Vince

[trashmanf]

well I agree that it sounds cheezy if you "XTREME this and XTREME that" but, what if in the patter, with the magic tricks, they say "ohhhh" when you do a fan or spread and ask more about it. you say "that's called card manipulation" and they say "i'd like to see some more"...

then you say, well there's a type called extreme card manipulation... and start going 'Bananas' giant fan, double armspread, upside-down spring etc. i think they might appreciate the "extreme" modifier in that context?

i realize that this issue won't get resolved over an internet debate because it's sort of "to each his own", if you don't like the term, it's definitely going to affect your ability to sell it.

case in point - richard has used "cardistry" in speeches before and he said it was well recieved in that context, however, many forum members say they get laughed at when they use the word.

[Vinnie C.]

well I agree that it sounds cheezy if you "XTREME this and XTREME that" but, what if in the patter, with the magic tricks, they say "ohhhh" when you do a fan or spread and ask more about it. you say "that's called card manipulation" and they say "i'd like to see some more"...

It's not the way it's being said, I was making a point about the simple use of it. It's an old marketing technique that, in my opinion, is simply overused, I think just plain "Card Manipulation" is fine.

then you say, well there's a type called extreme card manipulation... and start going 'Bananas' giant fan, double armspread, upside-down spring etc. i think they might appreciate the "extreme" modifier in that context?

I can't say for sure that it won't be met with similar thoughts that I described above, this is why I'm going to do the tests.

case in point - richard has used "cardistry" in speeches before and he said it was well recieved in that context, however, many forum members say they get laughed at when they use the word.

Like you said:

... if you don't like the term, it's definitely going to affect your ability to sell it.

-Vince

[trashmanf]

relevantly enough, last night we watched a show on food network called "Extreme Cakes":

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_cc/episode/0,2495,FOOD_20077_51673,00.html

it was pretty awesome, I mean, the cakes weren't defying DEATH exactly, but they were definitely the pinnacle of cake-making. the crowd was loving it but I think they weren't taking it too seriously - the cake that won "most extreme" was a giant sock-monkey with pyrotechnics, glowing eyes, and robotically articulating cake limbs. okay actually thats probably about as extreme as cakes get.

[Chay]

personally... i love the new name!

Flxisqueshcmdiseck flows off the tongue so much better than saying
Flourishing XCM Cardistry Decknique.

I dub thee Flxisqueshcmdiseck :P

Chay has spoken

[Vinnie C.]

relevantly enough, last night we watched a show on food network called "Extreme Cakes":

http://www.foodnetwork.com/food/show_cc/episode/0,2495,FOOD_20077_51673,00.html

it was pretty awesome, I mean, the cakes weren't defying DEATH exactly, but they were definitely the pinnacle of cake-making. the crowd was loving it but I think they weren't taking it too seriously - the cake that won "most extreme" was a giant sock-monkey with pyrotechnics, glowing eyes, and robotically articulating cake limbs. okay actually thats probably about as extreme as cakes get.

Then think about this,

Take a normal cake. Your average every-day cake. And compare it to the fire-breathing-robot-monkey cake, that is a huge and EXTREME difference. Now compare what is considered to be "card manipulation" with "extreme card manipulation", any significant differences?

-Vince

[trashmanf]

i guess that depends on your definition of card manipulation. but, I think you're right because clips of Fred Kaps could totally be called XCM and Jerry even said on FlashCards that Houdini used to do XCM. so there's probably no real difference between say, really good "card manipulation" and that with extreme. i guess that means the "extreme" is unnecessary!

[Vinnie C.]

i guess that depends on your definition of card manipulation. but, I think you're right because clips of Fred Kaps could totally be called XCM and Jerry even said on FlashCards that Houdini used to do XCM. so there's probably no real difference between say, really good "card manipulation" and that with extreme. i guess that means the "extreme" is unnecessary!

And that is my opinion. But remember, it is an opinion. This art is really what you make it, and what is true for you is true.

-Vince

[Ben Long]

I kind of said this earlier, but I'm going to reiterate my point because I don't think anyone got it.

It doesn't matter at all what you call it. Not one miniscule iota. Who cares? Honestly?

Like those Nike commercials--Just Do It.

Now don't you all feel silly?

No?

Ok, nevermind. Carry on.

[richard]

I kind of said this earlier, but I'm going to reiterate my point because I don't think anyone got it.

It doesn't matter at all what you call it. Not one miniscule iota. Who cares? Honestly?

Like those Nike commercials--Just Do It.

Now don't you all feel silly?

No?

Ok, nevermind. Carry on.

This thread isn't the best place to discuss this subject (since it largely started as a joke). I'm looking to better address this issue on a larger scale in the near future.

I will say, however, that there is an immense amount of confusion and misinformation crawling around today. And I think it's about time it is taken care of.

[trashmanf]

see Longman, some people do care.

[Ben Long]

see Longman, some people do care.

And I sincerely congratulate those people!

Now go away.

Where's my fez?

[trashmanf]

And I sincerely congratulate those people!

Now go away.

Where's my fez?

it's in the street, right in front of that cement mixer bearing down on us... go for it dude!